Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

This section is for discussing the Northwest Front, its mission and projects.

Re: Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

Postby andydonner » Sun Nov 29, 2015 9:24 am

Whoa, Erik. Welcome, and all that, but could we get a proper intro post first?
A. W. Donner
Facebook
Twitter
User avatar
andydonner
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:09 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

Postby Erik » Wed Dec 16, 2015 1:35 pm

I am leaving this reply to RFN 121715 here because I have zero expectation of it being posted, it isn't worth its own thread, and I'm weary of valid complaints about crapping up the RFN comments by using it as a back-page bulletin board for uncomfortable editorials that are demonstrably worthless anyways. It took three listens of your segment and a half pot of coffee to work up the care to bother replying anyways. Its actually easier to waste a half hour writing a tome when you know no one is reading it and it serves no purpose anyways.


Since we like tough-talk and candor...

So a few weeks ago I posed the question, which is more important: populating an ethnostate or mashing a keyboard and posting audio blogs to get people to uproot their lives to move who are somehow sane but base life decisions on a web forum, and of good character yet have nothing to lose as adults; family, friends, jobs, homes.

We have in this episode a clear and ringing answer.

"We have no welcoming party." Doing some math a few weeks ago, I found that 0.001% of the resident PNW non Hispanic white population is about 94 people.

The question being asked is why we can't sell a product, or give it away for that matter. When I look at seven years of marketing that has produced an email list and a number of 'sales' that underwhelm 94 people, it makes me think of those cola R&D promoters out there who are convinced their vision of grape Pepsi would have been a smash if it weren't for stupid majority opinion. It's the exact same logic. NWF asks for what are blunt marketing suggestions for a product designed not to sell, and then proleptically rejects the chorus of common sense solutions everyone else can see, then wonder why its a minority.

(* Edited in:)

The NWF fixation on what would be Phase 1 of what can loosely be described as the Butler Plan, a basic ethnostate, emanates from presumptions that don't require superhuman will. It isn't too hard core. Its not that every white person is lazy or too enfeebled mentally or doesn't care. Its that NWF is obsessed with staying on the internet, visibly terrified of actual benign engagement of locals because it equates racial preservation as being antisocial in their very own minds. It refuses to divorce mythos from practical reality of community building, focuses on negativity, indulges in misplaced specificity, therefore expects rejection and stays online. The idea of local outreach to normal people never occurs to NWF because it has no interest in normal people; normal people are not interested in make-believe doomsday gabbling and Brigade 'cosplay' as 'politics' of a party.

In short, investment in the NWF internet & it's 'someday' neurosis is QED ill received and clearly the vast majority sense it. If you don't have the interest in refraining from wild chatter about future fiction and griping about niggers and kikes like every other forum long enough to actually build your own community of self development through free action, why would anyone travel hundreds or thousands of miles to immerse themselves in this unproductive tantrum?

NWF doesn't make a priority of 'migration' and lament its lack of results. It makes a priority of migration because it's comfortable with the results of web promotion or else it would've changed tactics long ago to actually build something in real life. There is no greater behavioral index of insanity than watching someone refuse to acknowledge outcomes and reality, then resentfully persist on the same course to produce said outcome while claiming you want something else. Its a basic failure to accept one's own motives.

It's not about some grand plan or racial preservation. Its about the desire to turn a forum into real life company and the refusal to accept how absurd (and frankly creepy) such a mission is, especially when its based on such a narrow view of an ideological outcome- one that zero effort is being applied to actually achieving, because the motive to keep soliciting that company is the main goal and all consuming, deliberately. When we care enough to offer advice, it is coarsely rejected because it reveals how ass-backwards this approach is to the stated (and clearly misrepresented) goal of building anything at all. It's little more than a slow-motion Facebook call for a long-distance flash mob to curb loneliness and validate standing.

It's visibly a retiree hobby, not any effort to achieve the very real possibility of securing the existence of a race through simple, every day effort offline locally in ones own life. Strong booze and weak condoms have done more to further the existence of whites than seven combined years of this articulate if Quixotic method. At what point does one finally come in from the rain and either accept that either their motives are mistaken or their actions are fruitless?

If you want to secure the existence of our people, then physically do the things that build our communities and families and invite people in to share plans for perpetuating said culture any way and any where you like, and discuss theory and politics as the aside. Its all the preparation you will ever need.

If you want to run a web media outlet and bemoan that every single one of thousands of racialists have rejected your internet offer to travel and gabble about futuristic politics based on novels, then by all means, keep doing what you're doing. But just because you can fool yourselves on your motives- and you shouldn't- don't expect thousands of us to do the same.

I say again, in times of crisis, if people migrate at all, they go anywhere, but its time to accept that they don't rally around f'ing internet moderators. While everyone else is building their lives as whites should, this place fixates on 'political talk' where its comfortable to view our security as the product of podcasts, novels and deliberately self defeating goals to preserve its own relevance through futurist mythos. The NWF goal is observably being met- to never achieve more than this. And NWF will do it tomorrow, and every day after, because it is getting exactly what it wants. the 'struggle'.

(*)


There comes a time to review ideas. Overlooking that there is clearly a preference for using the internet to castigate people for staying on the internet, or the view that it takes a catastrophe to save an entire race, or promoting a 'community' whose mission is to promote a community and seemingly little else in Amway fashion, or asking people to move so they can sit next to each other to spam the internet and persuade others to join a 'party' today based on a doomsday tomorrow, where the slogan may as well be "and now we wait"-...

-... we are left with the reality that NWF wishes us all to come and be IRL bffs while equally refusing to walk out their own front door to actually engage locals. The disincentive to do so is glaring because it is not uncommon for people who dwell on the internet regardless of reasons.

So rather than swerve into the character issue, I note that this episode really distills the 'forest blocking the trees' saying, wherein the answers to the posed questions are right in the questions themselves, what to do with 10,000 converts; exactly. It's clear that the approach here is never going to complete the Kübler-Ross path to sanity. The plan for action is to keep planning.

If I am to revisit this matter, I should take the advice to start a vlog, because its clear parody is the only way to show why this is 'working' exactly as well as it is.

I have realistically looked at living outside Coeur d'Alene in the not so terribly distant future, as actual reality in the right here and present now progresses, where things actually happen. Of what possible relevance it would have to anything here has now escaped me completely, since I already own a keyboard, plenty of books and I'm sure I can get a membership to a wine & cheese club should I ever discover the point of one. This episode graciously offered the dignity and refreshing candor to convey that this discussion was over before it started, and I confess gratitude for it.

tl;dr- I got it, loud and clear. Neither of our time need be wasted further. Thank you.
Erik
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:00 pm

Re: Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

Postby andydonner » Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:38 am

Apologies for not catching this one sooner, but as with everything this time of year, things needed doing NOW NOW NOW and I lost track of this place for about a week. TL;DR at the bottom for those uninterested in the wall of text.

Castigation isn't the goal and is (almost) never what happens on RFN. Further, none of your points are necessarily wrong and they were certainly not overlooked. In fact, there's quite a bit of merit to what you've repeatedly pointed out excepting that it's still in the realm of generalities which don't hold up to critique for their validity. For example,

Erik wrote:Its actually easier to waste a half hour writing a tome when you know no one is reading it and it serves no purpose anyways.


If we didn't care what you had to say, there wouldn't be any back and forth at all. Believe it or not, this serves plenty of purpose. And while we're on the subject of critique,

Erik wrote:Its that NWF is obsessed with staying on the internet, visibly terrified of actual benign engagement of locals... The idea of local outreach to normal people never occurs to NWF because it has no interest in normal people...


You have no way of knowing this and it is, in fact, patently false. Later stages of this process actually call for significant physical propaganda efforts (the early stages of which have actually been available in the form of Northwest Observer and other items for many years.) I opened my segment with the observation that, contrary to popular opinion, there are multiple projects underway - and very near completion - which will circumvent the need for the mainstream media and actually allow us to talk directly to the populations we need to target without even requiring the internet. I realize this is unfair for me to bring up without providing details, but I can't because doing so would risk making these project defunct. While nothing we're doing is illegal, the publication of specifics would likely compromise the security of these projects to the point where they would be effectively neutralized before their day in the sun arrives. The problem with these projects, as I also clearly stated during my segment, the holdup is boots on the ground.

I'll cover the issue of "normal people" in an upcoming RFN. That's actually a can of worms all to itself. I could just as easily point out that our audience is terrified of Northwest Migration or else they would do that freely of their own efforts.

Erik wrote:NWF asks for what are blunt marketing suggestions for a product designed not to sell, and then proleptically rejects the chorus of common sense solutions everyone else can see, then wonder why its a minority.


Here's why we insist on specificity: No solutions to the stated problem of "building local communities" have been proposed. I've actually had to spend quite a bit of time in the past on RFN detailing what is and is not a solution since this doesn't seem to be as straightforward as I would like it to be. The proposal repeatedly put to us is that we need to do it. The solution is the "how" rather than the "what" and I had hoped to convey the reality that the "how" to the problem of creating local communities is actually more complicated (when broken down into components) than the issue of Migration because it contains additional steps which, when accomplished, leave us with the core problem of motivation. To put it more plainly, even if we had the ability to pick and choose the locals we want to deal with and turn them racist, doing so wouldn't put us in the position everyone thinks it would.

Erik wrote:Strong booze and weak condoms have done more to further the existence of whites than seven combined years of this articulate if Quixotic method.


Also false (and quite appropriately so following my remark on the qualities of solutions.) Whites will never out-breed non-Whites and this is yet another canard we periodically have to deal with. Even if the Party has accomplished precisely zero towards the Fourteen Words, neither will more White children (even if / when the birthrate among our race rises above the replacement level.) The historic causes of White Genocide (over the thousands of years over which it is known to occur) have always been capable of overcoming the White birthrate (and even causing its decline as they take effect.) The inability to assess the relevance of particular actions and their effects on a given problem is far worse than I would ever have figured, but it is what it is.

Erik wrote:When I look [over the NF to date], it makes me think of those cola R&D promoters out there who are convinced their vision of grape Pepsi would have been a smash if it weren't for stupid majority opinion.


That's the fallacy of Democracy. Majority opinion does not dictate factual truth or physical reality. The NAR is a necessity to our survival and we need to find a way to make a virtue out of the task of bringing it into existence (regardless of whether or not the people carrying that task out Migrated or not, which is the actual problem behind the problem.) You observe (only somewhat correctly) that the NF seeks:

Erik wrote:... to get people to uproot their lives to move who are somehow sane but base life decisions on a web forum, and of good character yet have nothing to lose as adults; family, friends, jobs, homes.


I did so yet without the input of a message board. All of the potential losses you named applied to me as well, but I still did this. This has also been true of everyone else who Came Home. Clearly, what we're proposing isn't all that nuts and we need to figure out what causes this sort of reaction to the Northwest Imperative. On yet another upcoming episode of RFN, I plan on covering the issue of who moves for what since it happens all the time for reasons which are far more petty and insignificant than economics or political / racial ideology. The focus on Migration is because the key to reproducing what works is to examine the successes and attempt to reproduce them. It's true that White people's lives matter, but there's no reason lives can't be built in the Pacific Northwest as opposed to other locations. Lives are always rebuilt after moves (which are known to occur outside of our racial / political context,) so the objection is largely invalid. Quality of life isn't a moral imperative, either, so this all comes back to the question I asked at the end of my segment (which could be rephrased as, "What does it take to get someone to do something which is not immediately in their personal interest or in line with their personal satisfaction?")

The Northwest Imperative, rather than being a message board or even novels, is a series of political and racial ideas coupled with a very particular set of historical observations which, when properly assembled and understood, demand a very particular action in service of a stated objective. All of this discussion has gone around and around a fixed point which is the issue of how we convince someone to take the same actions (and I'm not just referring to Migration here, which is why the issue of "convert the locals" isn't really germane at the moment.) If we could nail that down, then yes, the situation would change entirely.

Erik wrote:There is no greater behavioral index of insanity than watching someone refuse to acknowledge outcomes and reality, then resentfully persist on the same course to produce said outcome while claiming you want something else. Its a basic failure to accept one's own motives.


This could be said of the entire White Nationalist Movement. In fact, there have been pushes for "forming local communities" over many decades and the sort of public activity (which is anything but benign regardless of how it's imagined) required to do so has been met with an awful lot of pain and suffering over the years. I won't chase this rabbit except to emphasize that an understanding of Movement history is required to fully grasp why the NF doesn't what is does (and more importantly, what it does not do.) A more broad understanding will reveal the NF is actually trying to avoid doing what's been done before. Like most of the other feedback you offer, this observation is true, but not nearly as applicable as you want it to be because your premise justifying application is invalid.

Erik wrote:When we care enough to offer advice...


I made it clear on RFN that I don't dispute the offers of advice are the result of genuine concern, but the thing about advice is that one must be in a position to offer it. It's not my purpose to cut anyone down, but unless someone has been a political organizer (around a very unpopular ideology, no less) with demonstrable results, they don't have a whole lot to offer in the way of advice. On the other hand, if someone like this is legitimately concerned enough about the survival of the White race, they should identify themselves as such and present credentials (along with proof of said results.) And following that, they should then provide a clear path to the implementation of the "convert the locals" proposal with specific emphasis on the issue of "how to make someone do things they would not otherwise do for various reasons" aspect of the problem. I personally have been involved in quite a few different political efforts over the years and the issue of outreach is never as clear-cut as the uninitiated make it out to be. I'm not shooting down input for the sake of disagreement; rather, I'm making sure the Party dots its "I's" and crosses its "T's" before we go anywhere near trying to organize on a large scale to prevent all the problems that causes (because I've seen them firsthand before, though not in a Racial Nationalist context.)

My own actual, on-the-ground experience (which is echoed by dozens of Party associates I've consulted on this matter) tells me that Migration is the only way we know of (as yet) to gain the experiences and references requisite in learning to behave as the Party needs. The theorycraft does not agree with the experiences of people who actually do what the Party asks and until we can close that gap by adjusting the theory appropriately, we aren't going to get anywhere in terms of a personnel development program which is why "converting the locals" doesn't actually result in progress past the situation we find ourselves in right now.

----------

TL;DR: While I admit this is unfair of me (despite being completely truthful), it's impossible for anyone not involved with us on a face-to-face basis to know what we are and aren't up to locally. Further, the premise of most of the "advise" the Party gets isn't actually valid (for the reasons stated above) and therefore, the commentary given isn't nearly as helpful as one would think. And lastly, the ability to assess problems and the steps to their resolution does not appear to be a given and reality almost never agrees with theorycrafting. The problem we need to solve (regardless of where Party associates come from) is how to get people to do things they know are right even if they are difficult, unentertaining, or inconvenient. It's worth noting that all of the Party associates I encounter on a regular basis have no problem doing so. As I made clear on RFN, I will accept all the discussion surrounding this someone wants to have, but the theorycraft stops now. Your feedback caused the Party to ask for specific input which it technically has not asked for in the past, so claiming we're not willing to adjust is an outright lie. Either deal with the specific problem in front of us or drop the subject.

You've been heard, but that doesn't mean you're going to get the response you want or expect. If it's any consolation, it took me a solid week between first finding the NF and interacting with the material the way I ask others to. It wasn't easy to get to that point and I don't think badly of people who aren't quite there because I know how hard I had to work to deal with myself. That said, I must insist, for reasons specified here and many other places, that the attempt be made properly (though I don't mean to suggest you're not doing so.)
A. W. Donner
Facebook
Twitter
User avatar
andydonner
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:09 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Re: Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

Postby HAC » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:38 am

Erik is the guy who was posting these long screeds in the comments section for a while, until I stopped approving them. At least he's moved them here, which is a more appropriate forum. Let me go over this to make sure I'm not missing anything.
HAC
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:44 am

Re: Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

Postby HAC » Sat Dec 26, 2015 9:50 am

Okay, after going over it all, I suspect I know who this is, and if so, he's harmless.
HAC
 
Posts: 382
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 2:44 am

Re: Recruiting and propaganda spreading tips.

Postby andydonner » Mon Dec 28, 2015 12:05 pm

After dealing with his input here, several possibilities dawned on me. No one specific, but certainly a good grasp of the archetype(s) he embodies. I'll always give a polite response, but the reality about the Party's fear of interacting with people is that it doesn't exist. Each of our face-to-face encounters is a risk and none of us has ever batted an eye at the idea of us introducing new people to the Party, so the idea that we're somehow worried about interfacing with people is absurd.
A. W. Donner
Facebook
Twitter
User avatar
andydonner
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1287
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:09 pm
Location: Seattle, WA

Previous

Return to About the Northwest Front

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron